Warlock Speed ISS Stacking

sorry i don't read German or whatever language that is.. i don't see their gear or skill level.. 4 undergear noob wl wont do good obviously... but try a t16 weapon +30 gear with all the speed buffs and tell me how you do..

i could link so many videos and timestamps but you are not worth my time.. if the people in charge need it i'm happy to do it.. your opinions mean zero to me..

just yesterday clancy was playing w/m and said oh crap better go back to warlock lol

there's no debate here.. you guys are totally wrong.. you're grasping at straws.. all you can do is call me bad lol.. you have no knowledge or testing of how fast warlocks are moving..

i'm bad because my gear is bad and i'm not young... so what.. it's not about me it's about a broken game mechanic..

i can be bad and slow and still realize there's a problem .. if it was me alone i'm humble enough to admit as you can see...

people in charges if you need timestamps i can get them for you .. just message me or reply here..

i can show you many insane movement speed clips and many people raging about speed specifically..

right so you agree thank you... not sure why you're arguing for nothing.. 450% would be decent cap perhaps..

what I would like is people to acknowledge the power of speed in a group pvp situation...

each side can target people far away but you don't really know who's targeting you until they moving towards you and are pretty close...

the faster a player moves the less time the other player has to react and realize someone is targeting them...

combine that with a long range OP attack skill that channels while moving...

it really becomes a joke...

sure i can seren the second i see them knowing they're going to be on me.. but it's a total guess.. and they can retreat when the target immune pops up...

the point is movement speed is huge... beyond huge... so i think it's important to look into it if an issue has been raised...

rogues have a counter with eyes... and once you know they're around you can aoe... they can't run away as fast.. get out of range of stuns in a split second... get to another target and another target in a blink of an eye...

no matter how much you try to compare classes to wl you'll never compare the speed...

and as I said speed is so powerful in group pvp... if you can't admit that then you're not being honest or don't understand the game...

if something is so insanely strong then it should be double and triple checked..

to me it feels obviously broken or unintended...

is sod plus knight 20% iss plus w/p magic barrier broken perhaps but I didn't make a thread for that.. i can stun them.. i can see them coming .. we can purge them.. i'm not complaining about 20 classes and strong skills..

I'm not typing thousands of words for the other things...

if I thought i was just crying for a second I wouldn't bother..

people are just saying that because they have no knowledge to make a good argument about the issue..

they compare apples and oranges..

anyways.. i thank you guys for bumping thread over and over and agreeing with me in the end

Quote from Torkilsd

Hes talking about paradox. A guild that right now has twice the points of his own guild.

A guild that has 5 very good warlocks, with said t15 or 16+30 weapons.

A guild that right now has only one comeptitige opponent with Venomx, a guild at 200k points.......

Sooooo. No. What he said is straight facts. Chell (kill lead in the screen) is a warden btw.....

I still don't know what you guys are about. Are you saying some 7 player guild is beating a 20 player guild with 5 OP warlocks? Talk about bad. If it's the other way well hello 20 vs 7 of course. But we're 20vs20... there's no room for that player advantage.

Quote from Torkilsd

We do have knowledge on how fast warlocks are moving. You know. Both ainz and myself play warlock as Mains.......

That's not actual data. It's just your opinions.

Quote from Torkilsd

I have killed speedy bois now on rouge. On scout. On warrior/warden. On warrior/knight. On knight mage. On knight/warrior.

And well ofc on warlock myself.....

Nobody is saying they can't ever be killed. Especially with a good group working together. That's not the issue.

Quote from Torkilsd

Yes. You are bad. Not because of your age. Or your gear. Just because you are bad.

You dont react with preemptive net or seren. You see warlocks coming and just stay still until you die.

You dont use your ults the way its supposed to be used so your dmg is seriously lacking. You are a sitting duck and get punished for it. That pretty much only proves my own point that warlock needs speed to survive.

Maybe it is more than gear and age. Does that prove there's no issue? Is that definitive data that proves there's no issue?

Have you played every warlock? Have you watched every video? Have you spoken to every player?

You talk like you're so sure. It's not maybe you're bad. It's "You are bad.". It so easy to point out failures and suggest that's the cause. Show me one person that preemptive net or seren every single time. Show me data how my ratio compares to others. You can't.

You just know I can't argue because I don't know my ratio either.

But I can point out you're just making a judgement with no data to make me look bad.

And maybe I am not as good as many heck if I know.

All I know is what I feel. And I feel it's so broken it's not even funny.

The guy just likes posting look 1167 posts lol. He can't stop himself.

It doesn't matter if you're amazing and can beat anyone. That doesn't mean there's no issue.

Maybe being so good prevents you from noticing the problem but wait you do notice it a little just not with my pile of something.

People say SOD is overpowered yet I'm here talking about wl speed. That says something.

The major problem with speed is that it allows OP warlocks to wipe 5 to 10 people lesser geared players in seconds.

It's ridiculous. I don't believe that was ever intended.

The time between them being in range and you death is just too short.

Maybe you can react fast enough but the fact is there's 5 to 10 people on each side who can't.

Clancy is wiping a bunch of players and kilgore is wiping a bunch of players.

It's impossible to deny that.

Yes people have the stuns and skills to kill them but then why are they not being used?

Because there's often no time to react.

Not always. But often enough to make all these players getting wiped rage.

It's a joke dude.

If you're OP and so good then sure you may survive and not understand the problem.

I actually do pretty good imo because I am a tanky warlock.

I can take a hit and immune and fight back.

But that doesn't mean I shouldn't have a bit more time.

And that my guildies who can't take a hit all get one shot by one guy at mack speed.

I'm not blaming my guildies because I know it's not their fault.

Sure they could change classes and get better gear.

But that's not the issue.

They should still be effective a little with decent gear but they're not.

They're getting smoked. Deleted. One after the other. On both sides.

It's really just about the warlocks now.

If one warlock is missing on one side it decides the whole siege.

They have too much affect on the outcome because of one thing. Speed.

It's ruining it. People have quit over it. I took breaks over it with others.

It's been an ongoing issue for a year or more.

It's not some tiny issue I can just ignore and work around.

And it's not needed. I don't use the 60% and I get tons of kills.

But again it's not just about me. It's about the whole guild.

I can't fight alone. My team has to be effective to some degree.

I know even without my speed I can smoke a bunch but I also have above average gear and weapon.

If I used the speed on top omg.

Again it's not about me or how I choose to play or how bad I am.

Just watch and see what's happening. They found a perfect meta for sure.

Buff up, buff insane speed, blow everything up.

Sure the buff up is normal but normally the buffs run out by the time you get to 3rd person.

Not so when you can cross the map is a blink of an eye.

They get so much more out of buffs.

Just another way speed is so different then other mechanics like hide.

Speed is such a huge aspect of pvp.

It's a super fine line between reasonable and broken.

Even both of you being so against me actually agree.

That should tell the managers something.

And again I'm glad you let me explain it further. Every time I explain it it becomes more clear imo.

Everyone can roll warlock and get the speed but is that intended?

If it is. If it's what they want. Then ok. I just can't imagine it's what they want.

And I think they just don't realize the problem.

They're probably not sieging every night.

They're managing many games perhaps.

Anyways, I just really want to make them aware of the problem.

I hope they don't listen to you and think it's just me crying.

I hope they watch and see the OP warlocks clearing and wiping groups of people solo.

And I hope they fix it.

So now everyone is bad. All the warlocks just happened to be super skilled players. lol

Again it's a fine line. Between .5 seconds to 1.5 seconds to react.

That's not a lot of time.

It's not impossible to react in time but does that make it right?

I don't have proof of the speed being too fast and never claimed I did.

But look at the kill counts. Look at the actual wipes.

You may think it's all bad player that are slow to react.

Maybe they are slower than you.

Maybe you look down on everyone not as good as you.

The question is if it's intended to be .5s or 1.5s or 2.5s.

Do you know the exact time it should be?

I'm asking them to check it out.

I'm explaining that the warlocks are wiping groups they shouldn't be imo.

I could be wrong but it's something easy they can look at and judge.

Look at the kill counts. Last night clancy 215 vs me in 2nd place with 94.

Every night it's crazy kills for the warlocks. That's data.

It may show they can reach more people faster than the rest.

When the same player play w/m and gets 64 kills.

Nobody forcing you to read this.

I'd rather it just be a message to the management.

I'm only responding to ridiculous replies to prevent message being ignored.

And you're not just compromising. You've acknowledged there are issues.

Bottom line you're willing to compromise and so am I.

I've accepted your suggestions as fair. Is that not enough said?

Quote from Prototype34

Domalash it's very painful to read so much stupidity and ignorance

there is a reason why nobody agrees with you. just think about it before you write the next long text in which you contradict yourself

It's easy to call something stupid but not so easy to make a reasonable argument against it. Explain what's stupid and why. Maybe you misunderstood something. Maybe it's too long and you skipped some things. I'm just trying to be clear. I have a lot of points I feel are very relevant and accurate. Show me where and how I contradict myself. Maybe it was a typo. Maybe I missed a word. Please try to understand my intention. If there's something so bad just point it out. Maybe I'm wrong and it'll help me learn why.

Yes I know you're talking about speed related bugs. Those are issues I also raised.

I pointed out kills of one siege just an example of many sieges. Your best night doesn't mean anything if it's not a regular thing.

Your warrior example is not explained so I don't what to do with that.

Your K/M example is ridiculous. A warlock can keep them at range all day long till sod wears off. Often you won't even know you're targeted or be able to target them so far behind a tree or bridge. He'll be spamming his one shot so the instant he's in range you die. There's no time to react.

Sure a K/M can stun and kill a warlock standing still but we're not talking about those ones. Maybe you should check range on silence vs severed. That's all it takes. You can spam silence all you want you're not silencing first even if you got him targeted and see him coming.

But I don't have a problem with the range. Because it's not the thing letting get to the next player and the next player super fast while buffs still going.

I think people don't realize that when normal players buff with 4 or 5 attack buffs the first one is almost done by the time you attack. With warlocks that's not the case.

So it's an extremely fine line here. Speed is such a huge factor not just for reaction time but for buff effectiveness.

Yes good gear vs bad gear can be similar but it's not the same.

It's not what I'm talking about.

The best geared players without the speed are not killing so many so fast and rarely getting stunned.

They can wipe a group spread out sure but that's not the same and it's not as fast.

You're so focused on your play and my play you're not looking at what I'm asking you to look at.

Watch a super fast warlock wipe a group of decent geared players. Players with 1mil mdef and seren and sod and more.

Not all warlocks are equal. Combine the speed with the t16 +30 gear and it's absurd.

Sure they should dominate but not 1v8 and then cross middle and do it again.

Sometimes they get caught. It's not every single time. But near end of siege when it's so important.

They can eggrice on top of gear and just wreck a group that should never be wrecked by one player.

All the gear and eggrice in the world wouldn't help if they didn't have that speed on top of it.

It's the key factor.

You are argue they need the speed to survive. I don't. I use pvp gear like many do in siege. We can swap gear like many do.

We have multiple immunes to survive. We have self heal to survive. We have a defense mode with many defense skills to survive.

We have range skills like a mage to survive.

Do mages have immunes? They have a crappy shield? No speed?

And I don't mind them having some speed buffs. But letting them all stack that's not right.

Let one replace the other. One is intended to buff dmg and one is intended to be faster.

Nothing says they can't replace each other and should be allowed to stack. Not a single thing.

They make the rules and decides what can stack. Many things don't stack for a reason.

I think they overlooked all the speed buffs that can stack. Some don't stack like godspeed and unbridled and destiny ring and assault time.

Why not let them stack too? Just let them all stack and make wl even faster.

Lets have no limit. (sarcasm hear it lol)

I think the original game devs didn't let them stack for a reason.

When ISS skills were added it was probably different devs that overlooked it especially related to siege.

To me it's obviously too fast. People call it flashes of light and black and red speed trails.

It's not even a question. But you're having fun posting right.

Quote from Torkilsd

All i hear is mmimim. Warlock bad. I play warlock myself but warlock still so bad.

Because you don't listen or want to listen.

Quote from Torkilsd

Nah you are not tanky. A knight is tanky. You can chose to be like a total of 9+3 seconds immune to everything.

Then you die. Like everyone else. Building a tanky warlock is pardon my french: the stupidest thing you can do. I have swap gear for hairy situations. But i am a dps. Thats my job. A warlock that tries to be tanky is a bad dps and bad tank at the same time. You dont have Cc. You dont have enough shields. You dont do damage. You can be ignored and mopped up at the earliest convinience because you are not posing any threat.

Actually you're wrong again. I get 6s from seren, 5s from defense net, 6s from shield of the otherworld, plus 10s every 20s from locked heart. It's not meta, but for my gear and time invested into gear it was my best option imo. But I'm not talking about me. Stop looking at me and focus on the OP warlocks playing the meta. That's the issue I'm talking about. You want to ignore it and make it about me. Even if I played the meta I would still be speaking up for the players who are afraid to speak up and be called bad players.

Quote from Torkilsd

My warrior example: yea you not getting shows how much experience you actually have.

Warrior/warden: one charge, you get stunned and are dead within 4 hits or something. Yes. You have range advantage. But show me one warlock that can keep his range in a group fight. Nope. Warlock just dies

Warrior/knight: pretty much a perma stun monster with SOD. Apex predator to anything squishy. If swapped to dps gear does amazing dmg because its still a warrior main.

I'll show you 3. Clancy, kilgore and magewarlock. Warriors total joke to them. They are so OP they buff to 1.5mil matk. That makes any mdef totally ignored. They have t16 weapon. They have range. They have speed. The have immunes. They have stun counter if the warrior gets super lucky. They have swap sets with parry and massive defense. They have fear. They have self heal. They have healers. You'll say everyone has lots of those things. Every can use eggrice. Very true. But they can't have it all plus speed like warlocks. So it's about one class using everything becoming insanely strong. Beyond what was ever intended imo.

Quote from Torkilsd

Btw most speed buffs stack.

Godspeed doesnt stack with enthusiasm. But neither does herald speed and so on. You know. Same buffslot and so on.

Yes many stack that's the problem. Several do not for good reason. Think you miss the point. Point is that if several don't stack maybe some of the many that do were an accident.

Quote from Torkilsd

But herald speed, spellweaver, attack Soldier, hall from a knight, and your own speedbuffs do stack. Thats sufficient in my opinion i mean you use neither, and everyone can see to what success. But hey as i said. Your videos give me all the arguments and evidence i need.

I often get destiny ring so maybe you're confused on what I'm using when. Again it's not about what I'm using. I can forget a buff. The issue is about what the max possible is for one class compared to the rest of the classes and how that effects combat mechanics.

Quote from Torkilsd

You proposition kills the warlock. Makes it into a worse scout killing the only viable caster we have.

With warlocks gone it will be a KM and Purge extravaganza, but trust me. That gets boring as all hell.

I think I prove otherwise. I get 2nd most kills most of the time in sieges between top 2 guilds on our server. The meta might change. Players might copy me more. Like miz copied me but even better making 2.5mil hp warlock. It's not meta but it has it's uses. Gets massive self heal. Can swap and take a tower solo. And the OP warlocks will still dominate. Clancy even said it won't change much. And I'm not asking for much. I just don't want it to be a joke and for players to rage so much and quit the game or just decide not to bother sieging.

Quote from Torkilsd

My proposition reigns in the speed, and addresses speed bugs. Leaving the Warlock to be the fastest player on the pitch. It also is a simple value tweak instead of rewriting the buff stacking for them alltogether. Which has a higher chance of being implemented.

The current buffs were 100% additions to the old ones. 30% speed going up to 60. 15% speed going up to 30%. Reducing the buffs to a 50% increase leaves us with 45% and 22.5% speed buffs. That should be viable for everyone.

Yes I'd love that. Their always on speed would bet cut 15% your way. Huge win. And total would be 67.5% instead of 90%. That's perfect. Finally we agree. Thank you so much for your help and support.