Warlock Speed ISS Stacking

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    Quote from Domalash

    Actually warlocks have two modes and one is extremely defensive with 80% dmg reduction for 5 seconds that can be used twice for 10s total. Or a 35% group dmg reduction. We can even combat rez in that mode. On top of defense net and shield of other world with low cooldowns and serenstum.

    Locked Heart - Reduces the caster's Received Physical Damage and Received Magical Damage by 80.0% for 5.0 seconds. Also increases Movement Speed by 30.0%, but no other skills can be used while in effect. - this still leaves you open for stun/silence/root and you can't use any other skills

    Defense net - Reduces target's Received Magical Damage by 50.0..100.0% for 5.0 seconds. Also provides immunity to the effects of Helpless, Stun, Root and Slow. - works well against magical, but leaves you open to physical

    Shield of the otherworld - Upon receiving Shield of the Otherworld, damage is reduced by 95.0% for 3.0 seconds. When the effect ends, it is activated for another 3.0 seconds, so the effect is maintained for double the effect duration in total. - this still leaves you open for stun/silence/root and the 3 seconds gap between the next one leaves you vulnerable

    Serenstum - this is not unique to warlocks, everyone has access to it


    If playing as a tank is the playstyle you enjoy, I'd recommend picking a combo that is designed for tanking since Warlock/champ isn't built for that role and might not perform well in it.



    Quote from Domalash

    It could be as simple not letting the 30% and 60% ISS stack. Just because they are different skills doesn't mean they can't be considered the same kind or type of buff.

    You're saying that Traces of the Void (lvl 99 ISS) and Path of Anguish (lvl 90 ISS) shouldn't be stacked due to both providing a speed buff. However, let's consider the Knight's lvl 100 ISS "Heroic Spirit Guard," which stacks with SOD and Enhanced Magic Barrier. These are entirely different skills that provide buffs which reduce a percentage of incoming magical damage, essentially granting them immunity against magic for 30 seconds, even though it doesn't add up to 100%. Hence, the logic in your argument seems inconsistent.


    As I mentioned before, I'm completely open to the idea of introducing a speed cap in siege war. However, it's essential that the speed cap is set at a limit that won't cripple the class or drastically alter its intended playstyle. In my opinion, Domalash's proposal to remove or alter the speed ISS seems impractical. While it may address HIS issue in Siege Wars (PVP), it disregards the potential negative impact on those who enjoy playing warlock/champ in PVE scenarios.

    Quote from Domalash

    And saying all my guild members seem fine with it is beyond absurd. We have made efforts to be more calm in discord during siege lately so that may explain that.


    But again if the people in charge want a compiled video of raging please let me know. If that's all it takes it's no problem. I'll make it private and give you the link so nobody is singled out. But I promise you it's dozens of people in over a hundred sieges. No joke. And that's just the two guilds I watch.

    Honestly, I think it's time to let go of the claim that you have proof that everyone in your guild shares the same issue as you, because if you did, you would've presented it long ago. Since you're unwilling to provide any evidence, I reached out to one of your guild members, and they mentioned that you've stopped sieging and have been blowing up the guild’s discord with your warlock speed complaints. According to them, you even tried to get the top two guilds on the US server to ban the speed ISS in siege, but it seems you weren't successful as no one else sees it as an issue except yourself.


    Quote from Domalash

    It is not just me.


    Listen to the audio and you'll hear it's not just me.


    To me it's not a debate and you're grasping at straws.

    You know, it seems like you're the one grasping at straws here, trying hard to prove that warlock speed is a major issue and that your guild members share the same sentiment, even though you haven't offered any concrete evidence to support it.

    The evidence is there if you don't want to look at it don't blame me. I could care less what you recommend to play as a tank. I'm not talking about SOD. Make your own thread for SOD if you have a problem with it. It doesn't compare to player speed in any way shape or form. Of course I tried to resolve it between the guilds first. What's wrong with that? We resolved the Kogo pot issue between guilds. It's called being adults.

    Yea. But you see, not even you own server give a damn about it.

    Most on my server dont care as well.

    I regards to SOD, in the german Forum its a topic that comes up from time to time but well. Noone really cares either so we just make do with what we have.

    Or in my case i just play KM as well now :p

    Good thing really, once you play all classes you really start to appreciate the need for speed on warlocks. Like in most 1v1 scenarios i come out on top regardless of the class i am playing. At the same it helps me on my own warlock since i know the weaknesses of anyone else. I know when to run. I know when to attack. Its some damn fine mind games you know. Its the secret sauce that makes SW really enjoyable right now. After the fcap fix its so much more entertaining to fight at like 5-7k points in the eu region. I really dont want anything to change right now. For me personally SW is in the best state since the glory days of playing in Immortal

    You don't know what all the server is thinking. You're not a mind reader. Did I raise an issue on SOD? Do I care what you play or how? No and no.


    There's a specific issue I raised. But I'll explain it further. The warlock speed gives them like a guaranteed kill mode. It's not all the time. But some of them can pretty much guarantee a tower turn over near the end of siege.


    I don't think it's a gear or skill advantage. It's pretty obvious to me and others that it's a broken game mechanic. If it wasn't so obvious I wouldn't even think to make this thread. But it's blatant and undeniable.


    Maybe you haven't experienced what I'm talking about. Maybe they don't dive bomb you because you could have SOD on. That doesn't mean we should all play k/m and that there's not a problem with their speed.


    Heck maybe it's a hacking or exploit issue. Maybe it's one or two warlocks cheating for all I know. I just know there's something wrong and I'm asking they look into it. To me it looks like the ISS stacking. The multiplicative nature of the buffs. If you double 1 just 20 times it's over a million.


    You're saying it's just right for you. That's your experience. You don't know everyone's experience. I'm explaining mine and many others. We could be wrong. Maybe we're just angry. Maybe we play bad. But I'm at the point where it's worth the time to make a thread over it. I didn't make it for sod. I didn't make it for exploits. I made it for a simple logical reason that I found and thought it was worth looking into it.


    You want to argue but there's nothing to argue about. You said what you think. Most of it is nonsense like you're god and know everything.


    But I thank you because it lets me further explain the problem. Like it's an easy thing to overlook and to not have experienced. I play in the top two guilds and it's very close and sensitive to imbalances. Maybe I know something you don't.


    As a group we work very well and have our own insane warlocks doing the same thing and winning sieges for us. But they don't always show up. But even when they are not there we can deal with the warlocks as a group, as a group should, except when they sonic the hedge hog dive bomb us.


    As a top killer most of the time in our sieges they are dive bombing me! with this crazy speed to turn over towers. Maybe they ignore you because you're not a threat. They can out run you wait for sod to finish and smoke you. I see it all the time. Heck we plan that all the time during siege and call out sod ending.


    Point is I know what's going on. They know what's going on. I do see them sometimes zoom by everyone else to get to me. It's obvious. But I can only react so fast and they have to be in range. I can immune but they got to me so fast their buffs outlast my immune!!! I can target them but half the time i'm not facing the target because they move so fast!! Way faster then they should be.


    But again it's not just me. People are not idiots. They know to stun and use immunes. But at that speed there's no time!!! It's a virtual guaranteed kill mode. It's not perfect of course but 9 times out of 10.


    Maybe you think we're saying they ONLY move like a flash of light and are impossible to see. We do see them sometimes. But often it's just for a second or less. I'm asking them to look at that timing. And sometimes we see them from far away but it just doesn't matter. It's a guaranteed kill mode they shouldn't have. I'm asking them to realize what the speed is doing in terms of buffs and facing target and turning over towers.


    It's not easy to explain but you've forced me to and I think it's clearer now. So thank you for that. I hope it helps the people in charge understand the problem. People will get tired of being dive bombed over and over. People have quit siege over this exact issue. Not just me. You want names? DNA? You think i'm lieing about that? I don't care what you think. You're nothing to me. If the people in charge want details I'm happy to provide them.


    I don't want to drop names but there's priest who's tired of it. A rogue who's tired of it. I'm tired of it. I know a k/m who totally quit because of it. Bakken and Ronie even agree a speed cap is needed. Maybe just for server issues because they don't experience what I do perhaps. And yes I've quit playing because it's that bad. We can own them all siege but then they log in warlocks at the end and dive bomb us.


    It's stupid. I'm not going to play that game. My name is Tucker not Sucker.

    Edited 2 times, last by Domalash ().

  • I have played for the best pvp guilds on the german server. Immortal, Rentner, Chiller or Venomx.

    I am a main target for anyone i play against regardless of class because i will definetly smoke a whole tower by myself regardsless of my class.

    I play rouge or scout in Venomx.

    I play KM or WK in Troja

    I can play w/wd or warlock if i decide to move gears around.

    I know how to dive bomb a tower. I know how to defend a dive bomb.

    I have overrun enemies completly.

    I got my ass handed to me on multiple occasions


    I will share some war records when i am home just so you know: i know what i am doing. Really.


    Thats also the reason why i dont care for speedy warlocks regardless of what i play.

    If i get dive bombed its my own fault. My awareness after years of SW is usually good enough to feel a warlock comming.


    And now for you: you keep saying we. We want that to change.

    Now someone actually followed that up and it seems that everyone is just annoyed by that claim and the are fine with warlocks as they are.

    I mean, just take clancy: he zooms around and he gets focused down no problem, and hes one of the best warlocks to play right now.

    From everything we saw, only you, singular has the extend of issues you are describing.


    Also: all buffs in runes are multiplied.

    All your stats

    Your defense.

    Your attack.

    Even your pvp gear dmg reduce is multiplied.

    Or your dark damage. Now tell me how its any different to quadrupling your dark damage with 3 buffs that add up to like 190%? Just bare in mind, that its the only reason why warlock was a viable dps pick until panth, changing that will remove yet another magical dps.....

    Now, tell me again how its not wanted for the speed buffs to be multiplied :)

    Are they a tad bit extreme and we could make do with 20% and 40% speed buffs? Yea maybe. But the core function wont be changed. I can assure you on that.


    Ainz likes this.

    You know how to dive bomb a tower? I don't think you understand what I'm talking about at all. I don't think you're trying to understand.


    I think you just want to argue. I think you're obsessed.


    If clancy gets focused down so easy how does he get 150 kills and more a night? It's no problem ya right.


    He can be taken out. He don't always have speed. That don't mean there's not a speed issue making him insanely OP.


    Again you think you know what everyone is thinking and that everyone seems annoyed. Talk about making claims. You're full of balogney.


    Why do you continue to argue? I get your opinion? What's your problem?


    Damage is different than speed. Speed is different than damage. How many ways and times do I have to say it.


    You don't have a good argument not to look into this issue.


    Give me some stats on the speed. What multiplier are they getting? Maybe try to understand that problem instead of jumping to conclusions.


    Even a damage multiplier would be a problem if it got too high.


    Your arguments make no sense. But they don't even matter because I'm just asking they look into it. They'll know a heck of a lot more than you do.


    Your amazing insights won't help them.


    You just want to argue plain and simple.

    True. I argue. Thats what an argument is. You dont provide actual arguments besides your feelings or claims that your server feels the same. (Wich has been disproved) sooooo. Yea. I dont want the change so i do my best to make a case against it :)


    I get focused down all the time, yet i hit similiar numbers on KM. Or rouge. Or scout. Its not the speed that makes him that good. It is that hes a freakishly good player. Good players get kills. Yea warlock is an amazing pvp class. Its a huge reason why its so popular. But you can hit the same numbers on other classes as well.

    It gets into the same territory as crying that rouges go invis or that scouts see rouges......

    You want to take out the main reason why warlock is so much fun to play. The dynamic of speeding around and trying to get an opening to not get insta blown up by stuns.


    No speed and damage buffs are treated the same way by runes.

    The buffs work the same way. I know you dont want to understand that, but the underlying method of how runes calculates %-buffs is always the same. (You know, basic multiplication mathematics. Idk maybe its too advanced for you)

    Thats not a claim. Thats a fact. The only exception is SOD. But there its known to be a bug.

    Noone knows how to solve that tho


    Now you want to change a game mechanic and i tell you right now: That. Wont. Happen. I dont even know if its possible. They can only implement either a hard cap or change the % values on the buffs.

    The one intern at RW that is employed to push out one actual patch a year does not have the resources to do so. (Now thats an assumption, but given the stagnant state of the game over the last 3 years.......)

    I don't know where you get server from. I said my guild and other guilds I know. You didn't prove a thing.


    You think he's good that's your opinion. That's not proof.


    You think I'm crying that's your opinion. That's not proof.


    Yes speed and damage are being multiplied that don't make them the same does it? Why have two words for something the same? You're being ridiculous here.


    It's like you know what everyone is thinking and going to do. I'll laugh so hard if they fix it bros.


    You're funny.

    And if it's all the same why don't we have identical speed buffs to our damage buffs? Explain that one oh wise one.


    Damage I can immune no matter how high it is.


    There's no immune to speed.


    Plus clancy just played w/m the other day and was down 100 kills.


    That's a big difference.


    You're not fooling me.

    Edited once, last by Domalash ().

    Yea. The whole thread is proof that you are crying.


    Marcs videos are proof that ues good.


    Guilds/server. Idgaf. You say you speak for your guild yet your guild says you are annoying them and quit SW anyways.


    Its not the same. But the buff mechanic is. Reading comprehension is not your strong suit is it?


    I might be ridicolous. But i am right.


    I play since idk how long. And i can count on 1 hand how many balancing patches there were.


    And none ever messed with basic functions. Zero. Nada. Niente.

    As i said, they can tweak the valus or enforce a hard cap.

    But the multiplication is wanted, its the same as for any other buff.


    The only other solution i can think of would be to give both buffs the same ID/buffslot so the overwrite each other. (Like in defense/hp food)

    Idk if thats viable but it only takes out one buff anyways. All other buffs would nerf all other classes too much and noone wants to crawl around in SW dead slow besides you.

    (Feel free to keep doing that tho. You do you. Just makes you free loot :p)

    I'm not saying the multiplication is not wanted!!! You're not understanding me.


    I'm saying it might be why they didn't realize the numbers are too high and why maybe more of them should be considered the same type of buff like they already do. I mean 60% of anything multiplied can be huge then another 30%!


    You just don't want to try to understand me.


    You jump to the conclusion I'm crying but I know I'm not. Not even close.


    I can't force you to keep an open mind and focus on the issue.


    You have done no testing or provided any information on the speed.


    Your whole argument is that I suck. Wow. Genius. Sounds really objective.

    It's not like I'm claiming to be great. Many of my kill are assists and lowbie kills. Just like healers and knights who can stay alive half the siege get tons of assists.


    I know and admit I'm often slow to react so if that was the problem how could I deny it.


    But it's not even a question of reaction time.


    It's gone beyond that being a factor.


    Of course it's an opinion but it's almost like a factual observation.


    If anyone objective looks at a warlock move at max speed in siege they will instantly know there's a problem.


    But it's just siege. Maybe it's not important enough.


    But people are raging in discord during siege over it.


    People are quitting the game or just siege over it.


    Maybe some are annoyed by me in my current guild. Doesn't mean I'm wrong.


    I'm trying to solve the issue the best I can. Explaining the problem the best I can.


    But one person just keeps posting nonsense after nonsense.


    Talking like he's god's gift to the world.


    If I felt like it was just me being slow to react I wouldn't bother making an issue out of this at all.


    I swear that on my life.

    hell yea i am.

    Ive earned me that spot as a shice high fair and square.


    But fear not, there is a solution ive been propagating for the whole time:

    Git. Gud.


    Let me tell you a tale of a small guild:

    There once was a guild that was very smol. They feared the big bad warlocks of that time. But then something happend. A player showed up that showed them the ways of pvp.

    And suddenly with their players playing to the strength of their classes and the strengths of their equipments, they started to bully the big bad warlocks.

    And the dark faded away andvthey all had much more fun in SW than before. And they bullied warlocks happily ever after.


    Just something of my own experience: we had a rather tanky rouge that was as salty about speedy warlocks as you are. So i gave him my mire dps focused gear just to try it. He rebuilt his gear because guess what, suddenly he just killed warlocks in 2 or 3 hits. Suddenly he felt the power his class actually had.

    And now hes not nearly as salty about speedy bois and just kills them.


    Now again, is it the class that beeds a nerf or the is it the player that just needs to


    Git. Gud

    100% speed needs nerf no question about it... you're an egomaniac obviously... no doubt a rogue can kill a warlock... was never the issue.. you're trying to turn the issue into something it's not about...

    Whos sitting in a glass house .....

    Nothing you said got backed up.

    No evidence was provided (as you claimed in your first post)

    Its only you that wants the nerf ohh so bad.

    I dont want the nerf so i represent that opinion. Sorry.

    I wont change it :p

    Am i an egomanic? Maybe. But at least i dont claim my guild wants the change while it evidently just annoys them. Idk what that says about you.

    not sure who you're talking to but nobody said a thing to me besides the warlocks..


    maybe someone's telling you or someone else what you or they want to hear...


    maybe some are annoyed at the situation and not my honest efforts so solve it


    but for you to even think to use this against me and as an argument omg that's dirty bro


    i said i have evidence that it's making people upset.. why would you not believe that.. why would i lie.. you're wasting my time and yours


    i don't need to show it to you.. if anyone important doubts me for a second i will.


    it'd be absurd to make that up.. it's absurd you're questioning it..


    you're really trying hard to make it look like it's just me crying but that's so far from the truth...


    i actually don't say much during siege... but damn I've heard bleep warlocks probably a thousand times...


    that's not something I should have to prove it's just known.. it's in so many siege videos just go watch some...


    so again you're grasping at straws...


    there's nothing about this issue I need to prove to bring up this issue. even me alone having the issue is enough


    the fact that others have the same issue is not really that important that it needs to be proven


    maybe if you said you're afraid they'll make a mistake or i did a test or something i could understand..


    but all you got is you suck and nobody else has this issue.. oh and bob says you're annoying.. ya ok..


    you must be debate champion of the world

    Edited once, last by Domalash ().

    No. You alone having an issue is not enough. Thats when you become the issue :)

    Or as we say: Sounds like a you problem. now got touch grass.


    Why i doubt you:

    Quote from Roniethegreat

    Honestly, I think it's time to let go of the claim that you have proof that everyone in your guild shares the same issue as you, because if you did, you would've presented it long ago. Since you're unwilling to provide any evidence, I reached out to one of your guild members, and they mentioned that you've stopped sieging and have been blowing up the guild’s discord with your warlock speed complaints. According to them, you even tried to get the top two guilds on the US server to ban the speed ISS in siege, but it seems you weren't successful as no one else sees it as an issue except yourself.

    I know that no official teammember has answered so far. The only one that could even have the slightest insight is Fossilo. Everyone else is just a volunteer and has no insight on the inner workings.
    But i can tell you his exact answer:

    We will look into it or forward it to GF but no balancing changes are planned for the near future :)

    If i said "everyone" in my guild or even implied it then that was a mistake. I may have said many and that's just the truth. And it's on video. And I don't care what you think.