Some ideas on Siege War

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  • 1: All guards? Not going to happen, the side guards are easy enough, but the middle guard can only be taken by some OP players and even then not quickly. If the concern is Invis pot capping just make the guards able to see invis. I would like to also see something done about Warden pets in this regard.


    2: Agree on buffs, but heals on gates are ridiculously under-powered. Your average healer could spend all seige trying to heal a gate back to full from a tornado hit (note I said average healer, afaik the exception is the P/Wl with his percent heal). Agree on reducing damage from tornado and scrolls; players don't damage gates to any significant extent.


    3: Rams getting extra damage near towers - not sure how easy that would be to implement but I see what you are trying to do.


    which brings me to a suggestion addressing both 1 and 3.


    4: Have the tower guards prime directive be defending the tower. i.e. they react to the tower being attacked above anything else.

  • Ch/m buff can be outdmged. Often geared players full buff and outdmg that buff easily or they just kill gate holder inside. P/wl ofc can heal gate to max. But take in mind someone must operate all thees chars. Be it alts or real players they still must be whatched over. So that part is alright.


    Curently biger problem is dots but also they kinda needed vs k/m or other otherwise imune classes. But dots just do too much curently. Like all rogues mainly use bleed dot iss now. All they do is buff and put this iss. Vamp arrows and r/d aoe dot is also too strong. Ever got hit by 180k dot? All you can do is stak hp vs that. Oky r/d or other rogue wouldnot be too bad if they when put dot dont leave combat. Thees days they put dot and goes in hide in 1s and that not only when using escape or other rogue skill. Some rogues flashing around in and out like no tomorrow. All that happing in intense fight. Seems r.m have some doge based escape. But its not only r./m So dots + rogue flashing should be fixed.


    I would sugest class fix. Warlocks do also too big dmg and with mobility + heals, controls, shields and imunes are too owerpowered. They do insane dmg. Class is jut plain broken. Even with very high magical defence wl dark dmg with all iss just cuts like butter.


    Want better sw? Fix wls.


    New sw rewards would bring more action. Something realy usefull.

    And boost some pvp ingame also.

    Also Guild wars should be alowed like 30 min per day. Its fun feature and to see it as harasment thing is wrong.

    So fix guild war so it can be either acepted or declined.

    But surprise guild wars are so more fun.


    Arena reward change would be nice too. Its outdated and useless.


    We need some more action in game rather then farm inis and do dailys.

    Edited 5 times, last by Terrag ().

  • I personally do not agree with warlocks being overpowered and the statement of guild wars should be allowed like 30 min per day.


    Very much agree with arena being useless at the moment but that is another topic.

  • Are you a warlock?


    Do you actually play siege war?


    I fail to see any reason anyone could not consider warlock overpowered, and this is coming from someone who has played wl/ch for 5 years.


    It has evrtything you need in siege all bundled into 1 class.


    Heals, high damage, high mobility, huge speed, damage reduce skills and absorbs. Not to mention that it can be quite easily built in a way that let's it be reasonably tanky vs a lot of combos. I wouldn't want to nerf this combination into the ground, but it definitely needs some balancing. Reducing speed would already be a huge start to balancing this absurd class.


    As for terrags post, whilst you can outdps chm on a gate, it requires decently geared players, huge coordination and the most important one, max upgrades. No way you can outdps without them, which you're alresdy looking at around 25 mins at the earliest before you get a chance to do it. Now factor in a guild can stack multiple chm and you're looking at making people's lives a living hell, for the simple purpose you don't want to give up. Which is fine. Just change it so if enemy holds all 6 towers for 10minutes they automatically win, the code is there for crystal, simply needs to be copy pasted and Id changed to the towers instead.

  • 1: All guards? Not going to happen, the side guards are easy enough, but the middle guard can only be taken by some OP players and even then not quickly.

    some seconds with burst 3-4 people is "not quickly" ?

    and therefore you don´t need "OP people" - this guard is way weaker than an average boss of any actual dungeon


    Want better sw? Fix wls.

    Hi my name is Mr. Knightmage and i´m pissed of warlocks - i´m just immune to them for 50% of the time but they run away from me too often.

    Or is it

    Hi my name is Mr. Roguesomething and i´m pissed of warlocks - i just walk around them, killing everything in the backyard and destroy buildings way faster - and thanks to my setskill i can even walk over half of the map undetected by everything just to immune+invis cap a tower - but these warlocks dude...

    Or is it

    Hi my name is Mr. Wardendruid and i´m pissed of warlocks...


    How long do you want to continue this?



    I fail to see any reason anyone could not consider warlock overpowered,

    see above


    Ch/m buff can be outdmged. Often geared players full buff and outdmg that buff easily or they just kill gate holder inside. P/wl ofc can heal gate to max. But take in mind someone must operate all thees chars. Be it alts or real players they still must be whatched over. So that part is alright.

    Somebody noticed the invisible-towers from your castle?

    And to come back with this one thing....

    Hi my name is Mr. Macro - i run a spell on my own for ages... and i´m the brother of Mr. Script - he is automatically running to a certain position after killed and uses his skills automatically when the gate get´s hit...

  • Sure, k/m is broken too and yes invis capping sucks, doesnt mean that wl is not overpowered for the points i listed above. In an ideal world we could get real pvp and some balance, but its a dream world.


    PS: if more ppl stopped playing wl/ch cause its not op, k/m wouldnt be as much as an issue in sw if there was more melee dps.(ofc the calculation should still be fixed though)

  • kako, there is nothing inconsistent between what you are saying and what i posted. Maybe your server is different, but on US servers you do not see this. At best, one person will tank the guards while someone else takes tower. The middle guard is never killed. Now maybe, if your accords were implemented people would group up to kill guards, but as it stands now, it is only rarely done. And, if what you say is true ... then how does this help?


    And, Cenre is correct, though each of the other classes you brought up have their things. It is really only the Wl/Ch that has it all.

  • And, if what you say is true ... then how does this help?

    well... if you need to kill the guard first - and even if it takes only 3s --> then you need to go there and fight and not jump out of your castle which is guarded by 8 invisible gatetwinks - run with your undetectable rogue to a tower and just cap it 5s before SW ends.


    You write you´re playing in US - i don´t know the situation there but come to EU for 2-3 wars and look how it is - guilds hiding in their castle behind automated gatekeepers (Ch/M + Pr/Wl) which are placed in illusions waiting for the last seconds of war - just to immune+invis cap 4 towers after they couldn´t fight over 1for the whole war...


    In an ideal world we could get real pvp and some balance, but its a dream world.

    I totally aggree with you - and yes wl/ch is a strong combination. But if i see people running around with tears in their eyes just because of one combination which you can easily counter with a lot of combinations - sorry but then it allways sound like a witch-hunt...

    Yes in an ideal world we would get some balance both for PvE as well as for PvP - but you already noticed this would be a dream world. I think nobody really can remeber the last real balance patch anymore and if he/she would only say "oh this time when they ruined ..." Even with the small changes (e.g. the last set-skils) they totaly miss the mark by miles.

    That´s why to my mind they first need to implement some easy things before even thinking about balancing...

    Edited once, last by kako88 ().

  • Strangely ch/m gate hold dont realy change SW top points.

    Top guilds still there. Havenot seen gate alt guild been on top for a while. Ofc there is time when you lose to 4-6 tower fcap. But there is no guild who can pull in constantly.

    If they do then they deserved it cause it need good cordination.


    And to hold gates also not easy thees days even with invisible ch./m. Oppos just flame tower outside and gg or camp at gates and tab anything that comes close.

    Unbr have good idea to use cata +ch/m to not get alts killed. Thats one solution, but i wonder how it works vs flame tower spam.


    Thing is there is many ways to play and that some says sw is cool only when you power fight all sw is wrong. Who says that oppos must be even seen. Hell just hold gates, go all rogues and dont kill single oppo but fcap when ever you think is needed. That would only make pvp gears useless if they cant find you :D. And im sure ch/m + fcap is not cause they dont wana fight. But moustly cause there is no chanse. We all want to win.


    To realy fight strong guilds you cant duo them not even trio. So you need good groups of geared players to fight off like Noc, Thunder or some others.


    For example last sw vs Noc. We got like 1 mid geared pvp ch/m+ p/k +p/r (k.m or r/d). Well we got 3-4 not bad geared for frontlines vs 12 very good geared players. So what are the odds?


    Other example is Divinity. They have very good geared players t15 weps and so. Good pvp clases, X buildings and exp in sws. Yet they are not many thees days and that leads to that they not at Top also anymore.


    Also I kinda would want to get mercenary thing back. Thing when you could join 1h till sw and fight in that. Cause now only TOP sw guilds can give free chars to other guys or from other servers to play to boost thier frontlines.


    All discusions about ch.m gate guarding is only cause all wana finish things faster or easier and then wait rest of hour till all server finish sw to do some runs :D.


    To summup. If guild wana hold gates let them. If you strong enough or skilled to break in vs many ch.ms and p.wl go for it. If not why bother just trap hard and P/R towers.

    Ch/m gate holds not ruining sw. As i wrote to earlier some class fix would do way more then making tricky strats vs ch.m.


    Curently I need to play specific class in sw just to counter wls. I cant play other combos cause those would have no chanse. And its sad :(.

  • Oppos just flame tower outside

    Yes of course, because flame towers can see invisible things :/

    And it´s not that one thunderstorm of a badly equipped mage destroys such a tower in 1 hit... (like every other class and skill)



    All discusions about ch.m gate guarding is only cause all wana finish things faster or easier and then wait rest of hour till all server finish sw to do some runs :D.

    With dungeons like the actual ones which can easily be beaten by a group of 6 players... yes you need to wait for the rest of the server.... NOT

    It´s not only about finishing fast - it´s about a fun siege WAR. What is the fun in waiting outside the gates to kill a not buffed player every 1-2 minutes just to (actually not) see an invisible tower cap some seconds before the end?


    Curently I need to play specific class in sw just to counter wls. I cant play other combos cause those would have no chanse. And its sad :(.

    Let´s assume the enemy has 2-3 strong Wl/Ch at their side - so you have 2 K/M (in front), maybe a healer and 2 scouts in the back to snipe them down...

    I mean - of course if we´re talking about a siege war with 5-6 people on both sides and one side has some strong classes the other side needs to have counters or will loose (except for capping).

    But we´re still talking about something like 20 vs 20 (i also know that the times of guilds with 36 active players are over) - and if these 20 or maybe even 15 have a small variety of classes there is no single class which dominates alone.

    (and of course we are talking about equally skilled and equipped people and not David vs Goliath)

  • For example last sw vs Noc. We got like 1 mid geared pvp ch/m+ p/k +p/r (k.m or r/d). Well we got 3-4 not bad geared for frontlines vs 12 very good geared players. So what are the odds?

    Like usual you're wrong, just watch the video, Noct were literally 8 people. One of which has t6/t7 +13 gear! How can you call that good geared? Unfortunately that's how sw pairing works, you get bad fights sometimes.

    I totally aggree with you - and yes wl/ch is a strong combination. But if i see people running around with tears in their eyes just because of one combination which you can easily counter with a lot of combinations - sorry but then it allways sound like a witch-hunt...

    Wouldn't really say a lot of combinations can stop a wl/ch, and certainly only then in a high end sw. In a lower siege wl/ch just tears through absolutely everyone.

    To summup. If guild wana hold gates let them. If you strong enough or skilled to break in vs many ch.ms and p.wl go for it. If not why bother just trap hard and P/R towers.

    Simple reason, its not enough, there is still ways for you to lose even if you hold 8:2 for the entire war.

  • Wouldn't really say a lot of combinations can stop a wl/ch, and certainly only then in a high end sw. In a lower siege wl/ch just tears through absolutely everyone.

    Well like I wrote in #30 - I´m talking about a siege WAR with 15-20 people on each side, not about small skirmish of 5 vs 5, and especially not about a fight between a 800k+ LP Wl/Ch (from a point drop guild) vs some random guys without PvP-gear.


    My goal is not to give everybody Ironblood-Will (which would be easy - give 13 or even more merrits to everybody no matter the outcome + give extra rewards for winning to make the guilds want to fight).

    My goal in this case and thread is to enable a fun siege WAR; that you can enjoy the PvP available. Of course te best thing would be other circumstances combined with rewards, balancing and proper rules - but like I said before: start with the basics and keep the fine tuning for later.

  • You cant just look at balancing from the high-end perspective, you want sw to be fun, and yet do you think that people enjoy getting shot down before even getting a chance to react from a wl that can run at over 200% speed, and hit them for 300+x4 in a matter of seconds? It's no wonder so many people made k/m alts just to counter this, or simply rerolled to wl/ch themself.

  • Fun can mean diferent things. One can get fun fighting all sw while other geting fun even from defending. As Cenre said 1 shot is not fun at all.


    Also often it seems like moust want one type of SW. And argue about how defending with gate alts is low or why they dont gear up and fight, how its not fun just to wait outside and more.


    I always say let players play game like they want. Why would anyone would want to point how to play or what to do in game. If you dont like one or other guild tactics just dont join sw if you get this guild in pairing.


    And its not only about sw. I often see how many trys to infulence players. Telling them how to play, what to do with thier class, gear, loot, money.


    Let people play like they want and can!


    Think this way. What you will do in if you would be in that lower guild and fighting vs Top guild. Would you skip sw and afk at roof? But again you can get quit often strong oppos so roof party for 5 sw in a week? Or try to do something even fcap at end?

    Is it fun to roof 50% of sw?

    Or would you leave the guild and join other, yet you want to play with friends.

    Can anyone who crys about that not geting fights join to lower guilds and solo carry them to tops? Can anyone do it without 8 geared guys on your side?

    I bet none can!!!!!

    So situations is very diferent. Top guilds see it moustly from one point while others moustly just trying to survuive.


    So lets stop talking about how to make sw quicker. Insteed lets talk how to make it fightable for more players around here.

    Edited 3 times, last by Terrag ().

  • I always say let players play game like they want.

    right. fighting against gates is not the way the most want ! and that is the reason why some ppl say something.


    Think this way. What you will do in if you would be in that lower guild and fighting vs Top guild. Would you skip sw and afk at roof?

    yes. ofc ! maybe take a look to their gear or the way they play and learn something. sometimes you can ask them "how do you do that" …. but this player are mostly not interested to answer to gate keeper guilds because it makes no sence for all to play a siege 60 minutes without doing anything.

  • Nero you dont read at all? No sense for you but there is for them.


    Also what point to ask selfcentred geared players how they do, if they think that they are something higer.


    But they arnt.


    That the problem with thees top guilds. And then they wonder why they fell apart. Only big sws keep them together.


    You didnot ansver can you carry lower guild to tops without other geared guys?


    I could even make a bet.

    1 gold cap to anyone who can leave his top sw guild and carry 1-2k guild to tops without cheats. Like afk sws or midnight sws. Pure brutal 20.00 all recorded for proof.


    Show me best player here. Like literaly pvp god. From any top guild who thinks he is pro.

    We then arange his transfer to other. You cant take your friends with you nor your healers. Just your char and your skill.


    Who is up?

  • Also what point to ask selfcentred geared players how they do, if they think that they are something higer.

    Who says that besides you? Everyone has the same options. Everyone can do everything. And nobody thinks he is better