Gaia Community Project - Let's Try to Adjust Servers Economy!

I really like the idea, but without real deflationary game mechanics implemented by the developers, a community-driven price adjustment would be nearly impossible to sustain long-term since the fundamental issue of too much gold in circulation remains unaddressed. The AH would quickly revert to current prices as there are too many players sitting on billions of gold.

two things here, additinally to Fahrenheit's post:
1) i also kinda doubt that big guilds have any reason to participate. those guilds usually have enough player and if not, they'll actively scout new player and give them gear (so for those few the gear is often for free).

2) the gear itself, that'll be sold in the ah is the smallest part of building new gear, since you have to plus, stat and tier them. f.e. a weapon:
itemprice: let's say 1 cap
+25 (which is kinda low these days): 30 dia till +6; 60 dia till +12; 200 dia till +16; 600 dia till +20; 1000 dia till +25 = 1890 dia (~950kk) IF every single stone works. in reality it's more like 3-5k dia (1,5 - 2,5 caps

t13 (which is also kinda low these days): 3x t13 for ~700kk each -> 2,1 caps

so in reality the item itself is like 1/5 of the final price and the stuff from the itemshop alone is 4/5 of that.

if you wanna do avarage gear it's more like t14+30 and that'll be 6,3 caps for tierstones and 9 caps for +30

so the initial 1 cap for the item is only ~6% of the total price and the other ~94% are itemshop stuff.

if we also try to lower the dia price, you wouldn't change anything beside that player with many alts, that generate gold by dq, have in fact more wealth then others^^

you not only have to convice people on gaia to stop buying but also people from all eu servers since server transfer exists (and you'll catch at best like 5% of the player base here in forum^^).

and even if you would succeed in convincing them all: rn it's best to have multiple chars equipped so you can do multiple runs a day -> high end player will simply use old gear on alts when they can't sell it and new gear is, as i said before, soooo extremly low in prices compared to the other things you need to build it. so even if you could lower the price of a new weapon by 50%, you'll lower the over all price by 3%.

and to achieve that, many ppl with ambitions would need to slow down their progress (new ppl who're willing to spend time and/or real money to reach the endcontent wouldn't take months but years to get there) -> won't happen

but even that is already too far in that idea^^

taking a few steps back to the core of that idea: in theory it sounds great but practically it wouldn't change a thing. you don't "farm gold" like generating it out of nothing unless you have a ton of lvl 100 alts (which new ppl don't have). new ppl can only "farm gold" by selling stuff. like shell/honor stats or cards or dia or... if you lower the prices of ALL things, they will also make less gold -> ppl with many alts will be relatively more wealthy than rn and those ppl you're talking about wouldn't be able to buy more.
so what's the plan there?^^ lowering just items that drops in dungeons (which is a tiny part of the full price)? lowering dias (which is the main part but also lowers the income of non-high-end-ppl)? lowering stats (for that, ini stats must be available first and it'll also lower the income of non-high-end-ppl)? lowering the prices of old gear (will most likely result in using that gear on alts)? or all together? what exactly should it be?

Quote from Sypereth

Lowering prices of everything. That way not only old but also new players can afford more stuff cuz u also get gold by doing quests and for example Balu village daily gives around 400k gold per day. So if something that is atm 5kk, gets lowered to lets say 3.5kk its gonna be easier for them to afford as well. Just by looking at auction house and seeying something for 1billion gold discourages ppl alot and makes them eventualy leave.

Quote from Ainz

you don't "farm gold" like generating it out of nothing unless you have a ton of lvl 100 alts (which new ppl don't have).

Quote from Sypereth

Regarding ppl that transfer from other servers, when they join and try to sell stuff for high amount of gold and seeing noones buying it, they will eventualy have to adapt.

they won't adapt... they will transfer gold and buy xD that's how the server trading works... you can sell stuff at higher prices? you transfer the item. you can buy stuff somewhere cheaper? you transfer gold and buy it.

Quote from Sypereth

Economy needs fixing and thats a hard fact.

and i strongly disagree on that^^ rn it's way easier for new ppl to catch up than in the last 5 years. and before that endgame gear was relatively more expensive than rn but you could get older gear cheaper (since ppl sold more old gear because of regularly new content and not the need of multiple equipped chars).

to fix that, a) gf should take away the daily limit from inis (so more ppl will consider selleing old gear) b) gf should continue with the current release rythm (like 1 new set of armor to build per year) and (optional, since the inflation isn't too bad rn): reduced the gold from daily quest or completely removed.

everything else makes rich ppl richer and it wouldn't change anything for new/poor ppl

Yes Syp grinding is exhausting and many people give up !

Don't know if it is too many gold or too few items which make the price higher... Kind of question like which was first between chicken and the egg !

Some random thinking reading this thread :

GF has a large part of responsibility for the scarcity of items for example :

- making stats draws in last instances mainly no worth getting random combo on hard mode hard instances (NP, NoM, MA, PS)

- making mementos items stats no worth no good for nothing

- making energy justice items stats no worth no good for nothing

- increasing price in proof of myth which imply an insane grinding of Helveta and Lakishna

- making the three last instances with day limit which limits the number of items and also restrict the attempt of guilds with players who have only 1 or 2 hours maximum a day...

Taking the example of Ainz to build a full gear you need :

- 15 x 5 trials x 300 shells = 22 500 that's to say 450 goblins mine

- 15 x 5 trials x 17500 honor points = 1 312 500 that's to say 1010 siege war wins

- 15 x 5 trials x 100 explorer glyph = 7 500 explorer glyph, so 37 500 dust, so probably 750 dreamland runs (assuming 500 dust for me and 500 dust for you / run of half an hour !)

- 15 x 6 (players) X 5 instances (1 good stat every 5 runs and 6 players interested in it) = 450 runs

- 15 x 50 x 5 POM draws (assuming you bargain some draws) = 3 750 POM that's to say 750 wb runs

- 15 last stat your sweety great aunt give them to you for free ! She's a nerd !

So let convert this to hours...

- 450 goblins mine X 10 minutes (including time to go there, to crash, to relog, etc.) = 4 500 mn

- 1010 siege war x 30 minutes (hoping we win fast Syp !) = 30 300 mn

- 750 dreamland runs x 30 minutes = 22 500 mn

- 450 HM instance runs x 100 minutes = 45 000 mn (you and me lucky, Syp, a great guild takes us as debuffers !)

- 750 wb runs x 30 minutes (arriving 10 minutes ago for finding party, crashing, killing boss) = 22 500 mn

- Some few hours visiting your sweet great aunt thanking her for her gift ! = 600 mn

Roll of drums, grand total amount : 125 400 minutes that's to say 2090 hours, a full year of full work ! Just to get the stats ! (and gear items probably if you're lucky with durability...)

This partly explains the rarity and the price ! Ainz was saying a new player will not wait months or year... but old players wait months and years !

GF has another responsibility for prices :

Now you have your stats, you need plussing and tiering your items and it really hurts ! You need plussing with the god damned infinite jewels... Past 25 you have 4% between the +1 probability and the -1 probability (+1 20%, -1 16% the others % are just 0 fail) so probability is 25 try to get +1... If you challenge +30, and you reasonably need it for weapon and rings if you want to become a dps rather than a debuffer... It could mean something like 3 x 25 x 10 x 200 diamonds (3 items, 250 * to go from 20 to 30, 200 diamonds the jewel)...

* Some will tell you if you're lucky you can go to 30 with 80-90 jewels... But some unlucky go to 250 and still do not reach 30 and at this point most leave !

If you are random or unlucky guy this is 150 000 diamonds, meaning around 2 300 euros buying with 35% promotion !

If you are one of the happy few lucky guy is still something like 800 euros (plussing 30 with only 80-90 jewels / item)...

Note you have just plus your weapon and rings... You still need to do all the other things ! Tier stones dirty and clean, drilling, runes, etc.

So when you come to sell these items, after so hard time and hard money how much do you price them ?

In conclusion, Syp, I think your idea was already underway before you realized it...

Many people no longer buy at these prices because they're tired of wasting their time grinding gold...

And yet the prices don't drop because every seller remembers the hard time and hard money they invested... whatever the object, statistical, raw, or construction...

Quote from Sypereth

This is how the game worked from the begining but prices on AH were more managable few years ago than these days. U didnt have to cap out char just to buy one item. Same work went into everything like today but prices were more managable and resonable.

I have to strongly disagree. rn the prices of gear are relatively cheaper then f.e. lvl 65 (we sold low dura chest pieces from annelia for 500-800kk and the first hd piece was sold for over a cap... the dia price back then was 20k/dia (1/25 from today) _{and a dq gave you 17k gold} -> that would mean that low dura items would cost around 12.5 to 20 caps!

back then only high end guilds had the best gear. (since black market deals were a huge thing back then: some old gears were sold for the price of a small car).

when you compare it to 2020ish: ok... back then new gear was really cheap since there was no new content and everyone had their stuff and new items were sold for almost nothing. but even compared to that: the item prices today aren't that much higher. only the stat prices are. and old gear was rarely sold then so you can't really compare it.

Quote from Sypereth

Also in ur whole calculation u completely neglected to count events on which you can get some of those things on ur own.
Aside from all that, u dont have to do everything u mentioned on ur own. I will plus my stuff to 12 with jewels I got from events and phirius tokens. From there I will find someone who is selling plusing services and get it a bit higher, depending on how much I can afford.

so what? in your initial post, you also didn't calculate those kinds of events when you say "

I dont mind doing minigames, running drill ground and doing dailies but the problem is it gets exausting if u spend 2 - 3h in game just doing that every day.". you can also geht stuff from events without those 2-3h a day for dailys, sell the stats and buy from that money old gear (or just build new). that's the same argument^^

Quote from Sypereth

U wanna completely exclude new players from the whole thing? How will game grow then? We have small population as it is and with ppl like u its getting even smaller so thanks for that, u really know what MMORPG stands for.

noone wants that but we can't change IS prices and when someone struggles to pay a really good but old gear for like 1-2 caps, they will quit when they realize how much it costs to build a new gear on their own.

Quote from Sypereth

With reduced prices players will still earn enough, u dont have to cap out players gold for it. U will not gain anything with it except economys fail and loss of players.
If u dont see the issue with todays economy in game then ur part of the problem.

tbh: no. when i would sell my old stuff, i would get maybe 2 caps (if i'm lucky). that is almost nothing when it comes to necessary things from the item shop. i spend in the last 3 weeks >15 caps for dia to plus a new weapon + a ring. the latter is only at +24. stats, tierstones, runeslots and the items itself not included. i just won't sell that gear for that price when i know that a similar strong gear (new items, less plussed and tiered, cheaper stats) would still cost >20 caps to build it on your own and you say it's still too expensive xD

that's just delusional.

could i give it to a new player? sure. and i'll probably do that when i see someone with potential. but i won't sellt it to a random person which will quit as soon as they realize how expensive the game is.

your suggestion doesn't resolve any problem. it delays the time till new ppl will quit by maybe a few weeks. in exchange ppl who sell gear cheaper will need more farming to built new gear -> more frustration, less fun, higher possibility that they'll quit

and ppl who would've used that gear on alts will do less ini runs a day which will result in even higher new gear prices xD

you can call us whatever you want but aside from the fact that this won't happen without gf changing prices of IS stuff (which also won't happen), it doesn't bring any benefits.

Quote from Ainz

you can call us whatever you want but aside from the fact that this won't happen without gf changing prices of IS stuff (which also won't happen), it doesn't bring any benefits.

For once I agree with Ainz !

Syp. You are dreaming... You say you will buy plussing with gold ? In my example i only count the cost of 20-30 plussing for 3 items (weapon and rings). Imagine your plussing guy is lucky and make it in 80 jewels each it is already 240 jewels, at the best promo offer 240 x 160 diamonds, so 38 400 diamonds, so (with 400 k/u gold) 15,36 caps of gold... Where will you farm it ?

And you can say you won't go 30, even the 16-20 plussing is expensive !

So your proposal is that players who spend hard long time to farm all what is needed (gold, items, stats, loads, etc.) to challenge the last instances subsidize your laziness * by selling to you for cheap price stats, items, etc. ? But they need just as much as you the gold to buy diamonds for their next gear !

* I permit myself this word for in fact we know each other, we were on same guilds - 3 at least - on two servers for a long time... I have kind of idea of your efforts in game... So no i will not sell my gear or items to you for cheap price !

Last random thinking : With Pasper sanctuary you have 6 new stats available... That means the gear that was so hardly build and stated farming New Pantheon, Necropole of mirrors and Mystical Altar is no more end-game... And I see our tank dead in two shot at Pasper although it has very nice gear...

For me the only way to get cheaper price in game economy is GF change his mind : good stats in instance, chance of good instance stats mementos, less garbage stats with shells, etc., lower the price of POM items and improve the success of infinite jewels...

In that case perhaps a new comer can see the light at the end of tunnel... and the old one too !

He will also need event for peak orbs, because peak quest system is too long if you're working to earn your living... Worth only if you can play full day time !

Quote from Sypereth

Dont remember ever seeing gold caps at those times but okay. Maybe I wasnt checking AH so much back then.

back then most ini items were sold at loot because bind lifters were rare and there were like 10 bidder for each item xD aaaaand you also couldn't sell stuff for more than a cap in ah back then^^

some people made a fortune in raksha already and startet the 65/67 content with a few gold caps already xD

Quote from Sypereth

Dont remember ever seeing gold caps at those times but okay. Maybe I wasnt checking AH so much back then.

Perhaps we were on different servers with different economy at these time... There were lot of servers, 2 french servers (Solas and Claiomh) and many german, spanish, EU, even an italian one if my memory doesn't fail ! And by definition a cap selling is not on AH but on trade channel and then whisper negociations...

Quote from Sypereth

Then u also know that all of them were PVP guilds and that I never was a real PVP player.

Yes, that's true... And every time we tried to do a PVE run, we could see how difficult it was and how much work we still had to do ! Like PVP, it takes a team, willpower, and training...