New siege war rules : improvement or impoverishment

lo de las caídas constantes hoy justo en horario de war, con pantallas congeladas, sin poder usar habilidades,...sinceramente no se como unos cuantos os divertís con estas guerras, para mi forma de verlo son injugables, hay muchos gremios que antes mostraban batalla y ahora directamente no pelean...básicamente antes tenia un 90% de guerras mas justas y divertidas, había rival, ahora mete miedo esto, nosotros seguramente tb dejemos de entrar en guerra, ahora mismo lo estamos debatiendo.

English please.

But i feel you. Crashes etc are no fun for anyone. But thats not the fault of the change which is being discussed here.

Idk if quitting sw is a good call. Maybe your points are just not representing your actual combat strength. There we are right with the last posts that the paring system needs some overhaul to be better suited for lower numbers of registered guilds.

But that at the same time has nothing to do with the change.

We fought half a SW without a stable buff and still managed a draw. So you can definitely come to good results even from a bad initial position.

Seems like you can keep full upgrades on your farm alts if you log them off right after SW and log them in during SW.
But to use that from the start is just bad sportsmanship.

Sarkas Whats the official status on that issue? Can we report it for Bugusing?
Also: please fix your method of fixing the buffs :p

If you are aware of a bug like this, I would think you should file a bug report.

On second thought, a community manager or game manager will probably see it.

Quote from Renovatio

Strings, at this day, i have played in 6 different guilds sw for many many years and it was never in a guild whom strategy was fear-invisible-caping at the end.

I have even build a gear of priest/rogue to purge (or try to purge) at the last minute if needed.

Once again you say you have read but you didn't. The purpose of those who have written is not against preventing the final fear-invisible-caping. The purpose is to keep variety, fun, and prevent boredom.

Some have very well understood what we say and have realized the difficulty coming with the change. I will not waste my time with you for you are distorting our point.

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Well that was nonsense. Guess what Reno, once again you're saying the same thing over and over. I mentioned you in that statement.. specifically that statement and then it was a new statement. Immediately following I said And those that are complaining..... which, grammatically, means those others are additional to you, not you. I have read it all. And just because you don't agree with my statements doesn't make them incorrect. And the points I made are absolutely valid which makes your refusal to address them all the more suspect in the confidence of your point. I have been playing since beta. So your point about playing in 6 guilds isn't all that relevant. The point I made, the extremely valid one, is that the only ones complaining about the changes are those that claim they need that advantage due to not being strong enough. If you are against those changes and not because you can't inviscap, after reading your posts, I gotta wonder why you think the changes affect you? Strong guilds SHOULD win. Did the world wars get won by the weaker TEAM of countries? No the stronger TEAM of countries overwhelmed the weaker.. dozens of other examples throughout history. So if you have an issue with it, then you are seeking some advantage you have now lost. You are the only one claiming its not about the invis cap. Other posters are clearly upset about losing that advantage against stronger guilds. Not sure what forum thread you were reading but most have made that abundantly clear. The changes only affect those using last minute cap tactics. The playing field is even. I came back after several years of not playing but I'm not crying about my butt gettin kicked by other players because I didn't put in the time, effort and or money that they did. Effort is rewarded and when a non endgame guild like most are, is content with not being an endgame guild that also means gettin beat in sw. Its a choice every guild makes. To grind hard or not to. Every guild has its goals and if you want SW victory to be your goal, gear up or shut up. It's really that simple. This debate is childish and moot. RW did the right thing. You not liking it doesn't make them wrong here. For once, in a long, long time, RW did the right thing here.

The imbalance is self inflicted.

This whole thing is starting to feel like the recent thread where one of the posters felt that we need to ban macros during siege because that poster did not want to take the time to learn macros for him/her self. They stated it wasn't fair that other players use the tools in the game that he chose not to.

Personally, if you can't keep the guards down, then you need to get geared up. I am building a K/W for just that purpose. I'm not wealthy enough to whale, so it's taking time. I'm not going to complain about a rules change because I can't do it quickly.

But isn't that why we play- to kill time?

Quote from Renovatio

No i don't think they are upset about losing. As Ainz, Torkskild, Bakken say it the change do not modify who is stronger and who is weaker and do not change the end of the war (except in case of fearless-invisible cap). The change renders any attempt futile if you haven't been able to develop the castle buffs unlike the enemy. It was already the case before. It is even more marked today.

Above in this post an agreement was found about a change that could prevent this issues. But i'm afraid the constant willing to prove that the change has not impoverish the game will prevent any evolution in favor of variety and rich fun play.

Welcome to roof party !

I don't think it's harder to get upgrades. if an opponent is so strong that he can hold all the towers without us having a chance of getting a tower, we didn't get any upgrades even before the change. I actually think it's a bit easier at the moment, since the opponent can't take the tower back directly with fearless and so farms can often be kept a few seconds longer on the tower.

Quote from Renovatio

Post-Scriptum : I am thinking, simple suggestion, that if the fearless skill and invisible potion had been made incompatible (eg fearless skill preventing and/or removing the effect of the invisible potion), the problem would have been solved. Except for the moles but that's another story !

that would have been a good change too. However, I find the currently implemented change better.

With your suggestion, it would still have been possible to take towers at the end with a "normal" (not invis) cap, which also took the fun out of the game for many people (if you didn't have 6x priests/rogues to purify all opponents, the remaining 59 minutes wouldn't matter at all been... so why fighting those 59 min?)

and likewise it would weaken the rogue as a fighter, since all rogues would become visible during fearless and could only become invisible again afterwards. that means rogues would be easy prey for all opponents after that even if they spam cast invis

SW has not become perfect due to the change, but it is significantly better and I can't think of any other method that would have done it better (and I didn't read any such method here in the thread either). every suggestion has advantages and disadvantages. With the current implementation, we have the fewest and smallest disadvantages compared to all other variants that I have read so far. plus many major issues in the SW have been fixed.

i still think it's a win-win-win without a lose (only a few low geared guilds have to figure out some strategys to kill guards but these are so few that it is not worth mentioning and apparently they don't have to do that for long either, since it should soon be possible to take them despite being awake after 30s)

Quote from Renovatio

I was thinking of the invisibility potion, not the thief stealth skill. With stealth, you're still visible if you get close enough, so easy to purge. With the potion of invisibility, you disappear completely and cannot be the target of a purge.

Well the appreciation on " it's better or not " is an appreciation on the style of play you like. We now have mostly trench warfare around towers and most of the movement warfare is gone. Without loss is to ignore those who have stopped.

I also observe that many wars are over quickly and the opponent remains on the roof as soon as he lost his towers... And the war registration board is shorter and shorter... Perhaps the causes are crashes and summer...

Well have a good summer, not too hot if possible ! ;-p

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then a rogue can still be full invis with Golden Cicada Skin. if this kind of invis would be disabled it would nerf the rogue as mentioned. (if you got fearless and you're about to hide you can't simply just use stealth).

run from tower to tower and capture them isn't really warfare nor it's usefull for you (even or more merits for your enemy). now you're forced to fight and how i mentioned before it's not just "oh they're too strong, i'll wait on the roof" it's "they are strong... i have to figure out how we can beat them" and so you must come up with tactics and strategys to win.

Quote from Torkilsd

Seems like you can keep full upgrades on your farm alts if you log them off right after SW and log them in during SW.
But to use that from the start is just bad sportsmanship.

Sarkas Whats the official status on that issue? Can we report it for Bugusing?
Also: please fix your method of fixing the buffs :p

It's mentioned in the patch notes: Patch 7.4.0.2985 - Crafting Festival

I'm sorry, I don't recieve notifications for name mentions, so my response time is mostly a bit off.

Also I was not able to read all posts in the thread because my time is very limited these days.

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Nah. Solved with the patch anyway.

And if i would apply as GM you most likly wont take me since i run my mouth quite often

Quote from Torkilsd

Nah. Solved with the patch anyway.

And if i would apply as GM you most likly wont take me since i run my mouth quite often

Come at me bruh

U wot m8

Quote from Renovatio

Quote from Strings

I said And those that are complaining..... which, grammatically, means those others are additional to you, not you.

Don't be condescending, English is not my native language. And those others, additionnal to me spoke of playing not of winning.

Quote from Strings

because you don't agree with my statements doesn't make them incorrect

Same for my statements. But your demonstration is to say they are !

Quote from Strings

So your point about playing in 6 guilds isn't all that relevant

My point about the guilds I've played with was to illustrate that most of us and me in particular didn't use the fearless-invisible cap, which is the main argument to dispute that we're just looking for a fun and rich game and say on the contrary that we complain.

Quote from Strings

Other posters are clearly upset about losing that advantage against stronger guilds

No i don't think they are upset about losing. As Ainz, Torkskild, Bakken say it the change do not modify who is stronger and who is weaker and do not change the end of the war (except in case of fearless-invisible cap). The change renders any attempt futile if you haven't been able to develop the castle buffs unlike the enemy. It was already the case before. It is even more marked today.

Above in this post an agreement was found about a change that could prevent this issues. But i'm afraid the constant willing to prove that the change has not impoverish the game will prevent any evolution in favor of variety and rich fun play.

Welcome to roof party !

Je redonne la parole à Bossuet pour la conclusion : "Dieu se rit des hommes qui déplorent les effets dont ils chérissent les causes."

Post-Scriptum : I am thinking, simple suggestion, that if the fearless skill and invisible potion had been made incompatible (eg fearless skill preventing and/or removing the effect of the invisible potion), the problem would have been solved. Except for the moles but that's another story !

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Yea Im just hearing the same thing. Also I wasn't condescending but if you have a language barrier, then you should use google translate to clarify rather than assume someone is belittling you. The bottom line is the only players this negatively impacts are those that were inviscapping. Plain and simple. Because you are complaining about it and claiming you don't use it, i have to say i do not believe you. It doesn't imbalance things, it rebalances them by making it impossible to exploit a bug that was likely never intended to begin with. What is the point of all the competition for an hour if its all decided in the last minute? That isn't balance,

Bye.

Quote from Renovatio

Quote from Strings

Because you are complaining about it and claiming you don't use it, i have to say i do not believe you.

This is a nice and friendly demonstration. I assume we all should deduce i am a liar. Well no i did not use it.

The bottom line is a lot of players are negatively impacted for they used to play in many different ways depending on their team size, their team strengh, day after day. The game is really impoverished. Plain and simple.

PS : nice to see that GMs' chief approve a post saying i am a liar.

Quote from Ainz

then a rogue can still be full invis with Golden Cicada Skin.

PPS : i have checked in arena, golden cicada do not make you totaly invisible, it is the same effect than rogue stealth. So you can still target and purge.

PPPS : last contribution here. I will make kind of - long - pause in siege war for majority of my guild does not play anymore. And it was since long my last activity and fun on this game.

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I'm sorry, but I don't understand your post. If you feel personally attacked or insulted, feel free to use the report button. We've got two very diligent board team members who will look into every reported post.

Quote from Sarkas

I'm sorry, I don't recieve notifications for name mentions, so my response time is mostly a bit off.

Also I was not able to read all posts in the thread because my time is very limited these days.